Radiocarbon Dating - It's Limitations and Usefulness
-radiocarbon subsequently decays by β- decay back to 14N with a half-life of y. Radiocarbon dating was first explored by W.R. Libby (), who later won. Carbondated dinosaur bones are less than 40, years old Dr. Thomas Seiler, a physicist from Germany, gave the presentation in Singapore. .. Download pdf comparing dinosaur bones with other objects containing Carbon- Monitoring of radiocarbon (14C) in carbon dioxide is demonstrated using mid- infrared spec- troscopy and a of 14C/C= parts-per-trillion (ppt), but can be found at elevated lev- and carbon dating. Detection of 14C with.
The burial of these organisms also meant the burial of the carbon that they contained, leading to formation of our coal, oil and natural gas deposits.
As the rate of C14 formation is independent from the levels of normal carbon, the drop in available C12 would not have reduced the rate of C14 production. Even if the rate of C14 formation had not increased after the Flood, there would have been a fundamental shift in the ratio towards a relatively higher radiocarbon content. The amount of C14 present in the pre-flood environment is also limited by the relatively short time less than years which had elapsed between Creation and the Flood.
Even if one is generous and allows for the current rate of C14 production to have ocurred throughout this period, the maximum amount of C14 in existence then is less than a fourth of the amount present today. The last years have seen this effect occur in reverse.
Our massive consumption of fossil fuels is releasing the carbon which has been locked up in the Earth's crust for the last four or five millennia.
The effect has been complicated by the addition of manmade radioactive carbon to the biosphere because of nuclear explosions and experimentation.
And God said, Let there be a space in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the space, and divided the waters which [were] under the space from the waters which [were] above the space: And God called the space Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning - Day Two. The water vapour layer had many significant effects. It increased atmospheric pressure, making absorption of oxygen by living creatures a much easier process than it is today.
The increased pressure and the presence of a huge quantity of atmospheric water vapour kept the humidity high, thus encouraging lush plant growth. Warm, moist conditions allowed the growth of "tropical" species in areas that are temperate today and the growth of "temperate" species in polar regions. The water vapour layer was responsible for the fossilised forests found in Antarctica today.
The surface of the earth was also shielded from the effects of ultraviolet radiation by the water vapour layer, another factor making life easier in the past. All of these effects reduced environmental stress on living creatures, thus allowing larger species to flourish. The water vapour canopy and the strengthened magnetic field would also have reduced the number of damaging mutations to a rarity.
These effects would have contributed significantly to the long life spans the Bible gives the Pre-Flood humans. Significantly, the water vapour layer also had an effect on the formation of C As Carbon 14 is formed by neutrons produced from cosmic radiation striking nitrogen atoms in the upper atmosphere, the thick layer of almost pure water molecules above our 'normal' upper atmosphere absorbed many neutrons before they could reach the atmospheric nitrogen.
This greatly decreased the amount of C14 being produced. The water vapour canopy was one source of the rain during the Great Flood. The event that triggered the massive geothermal upheaval during Noah's life also made the water vapour canopy unstable. Over a period of forty days the water vapour layer was totally destroyed. This would have allowed production of C14 to immediately increase enormously. The values have been calculated using a computerised simulation that assumes the ratio of Carbon 14 to Carbon 12 at the time of the Flood was one-thousandth of what it is today.
This rate would slow over time as greater amounts of C14 present would lead to greater amounts of C14 decaying, eventually balancing the amount produced. The Magnetic Field effects have been superimposed on these values as stated above.
As we go farther back in time, the difference between the two dating systems becomes greater. After the Flood, there is a steady increase in the production rate of carbon This, coupled to the removal of most of the Carbon 12, results in a sharp decrease in the difference between the actual dates and the radiocarbon dates. In the hundred-year period from BCE to BCE, the difference between the two dates shrinks from 61, years to 17, years.
Though the atmospheric changes are quite dramatic, these changes were only slowly incorporated into the massive amount of almost pure common carbon found in the Biosphere. Another factor which may be involved in all these events has been proposed by physicist Dr Russell Humphreys. He has suggested that the main driving force behind many of the Flood processes may have been a temporary relaxation of the nuclear binding forces. This is mainly due to the nature of bone, which is a very porous material.
Certain parts of bone look like a sponge under the microscope. Many dinosaur bones are hard as rock because the original material has been replaced with a silicon material such as quartz. These are "mineralized" or "fossilized". We have found un-mineralized dinosaur bones. We then scrape the outer surface off to get rid of surface contamination, and date the inner remaining material. One can date just the purified bioapatite, the total organics, or the collagen, or a combination of these, as we did in several cases.
This is a remarkable find because collagen, being a soft tissue present in most animals, is supposed to decay in a few thousand years. Collagen is the main protein found in connective tissue of animals.
It can make up from 1 to 6 percent of muscle mass. Triceratops and Hadrosaur femur bones in excellent condition were discovered in Glendive Montana, and our group received permission to saw them in half and collect samples for Carbon testing.
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Both bones were tested by a licensed lab for presence of collagen. Both bones did in fact contain some collagen. The best process Accelerator Mass Spectrometry was used to date them.
Total organic carbon and dinosaur bioapatite was extracted and pretreated to remove potential contaminants, and concordant radiocarbon dates were obtained. They were similar to radiocarbon dates for ice-age megafauna such as Siberian mammoths, saber tooth tigers of the Los Angeles LaBrea Tarpits, sloth dung, and giant bison.
We usually prefer AMS dating because of its inherent superior accuracy, but use the conventional method when large samples are available in order to completely rule out contamination. This is recommended by a carbon-dating laboratory specialist. Robert Bennett, physicist and co-author, agree that "the AOGS-AGU assembly encourages presentation of reliable data even though the topic may be controversial. This is a very wise policy for the advacement of science and the education of people everywhere.
Thus, we encourage our colleagues to do their own carbon dating of dinosaur bones from museums and university fossil repositories around the world, as well as testing for C in scrapings from dinosaur bones as they are excavated. We are anxious to see their results presented, just as we have done. Also, we call on the news media and citizens everywhere to urge paleontologists, curators, university faculty, and government scientific agencies to encourage and support further testing for C content in dinosaur remains.
Scientists need to know the actual chronology of the Earth and the age of the fossils. Waldemar Julsrud, a German hardware merchant in Acambaro, Mexico, was riding his horse on the lower slope of El Toro Mountain on a sunny morning in July Suddenly he spotted some partially exposed hewn stones and a ceramic object half buried in the dirt.
He dismounted and dug out of the ground the hewn stones as well as a few ceramic pieces. Julsrud, who was archaeologically astute, immediately realized that these ceramic pieces were unlike anything that he had seen. The objects he held in his hand were distinctively different than any other known Indian culture. When a few ceramic fragments were found there, Julsrud hired diggers to excavate.
This discovery brought world wide attention from archaeologists who at first mistakenly defined them as Tarascan, but later they were correctly identified as a whole New Indian culture - the Chupicuaro.
Isotopes of carbon - Wikipedia
Julsrud at age sixty-nine was on the brink of making a discovery that may prove to be the greatest archaeological discovery ever made. He hired a Mexican farmer, Odilon Tinajero, to dig in the area where the ceramic figurines were found and bring him any other similar objects. Soon Tinajero had a wheelbarrow full of ceramic pottery that had been excavated on El Toro Mountain. Charles Hapgood notes that "Julsrud was a shrewd businessman and he now made a deal with Tinajero that is very important for our story.
He told Tinajero that he would pay him one peso worth about 12 cents for each complete piece he brought in. Among the thousands of artifacts excavated were items that turned Julsrud's mansion into "the museum that scared scientists.
The objects were made of clay and stone, varying in size from a few inches long to statues three feet high, and dinosaur objects four to five feet long.
Carbon dating dinosaur bones
In the collection, that now numbered over 20, objects, not one could be found to be a duplicate of another. Each of the clay pieces had been individually made, without molds, skillfully sculptured, and carefully decorated.
Several hundred of the figurines were scientifically identified as representing many species of dinosaurs, including duck billed Trachodon, Gorgosaurus, horned Monoclonius, Ornitholestes, Titanosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus Paleococincus, Diplodocus, Podokosaurus, Struthiomimos, Plesiosaur, Maiasaura, Rhamphorynchus, Iguanodon, Brachiosaurus, Pteranodon, Dimetrodon, Ichtyornis, Tyrannosaurus Rex, Rhynococephalia and other unknown or as yet unidentified dinosaur species.
These remarkable dinosaur figurines threaten orthodox concepts and time scales in many fields of study. Sanderson was amazed in to find that there was an accurate representation of the American dinosaur Brachiosaurus, which was almost totally unknown to the general public at that time.
Sanderson wrote about the figurine in the Julsrud collection. It is about a foot tall. The point is it is an absolutely perfect representation of Brachiosaurus, known only from East Africa and North America. There are a number of outlines of the skeletons in the standard literature but only one fleshed out reconstruction that I have ever seen.
This is exactly like it. InArthur Young submitted two of the figurines to Dr. The Masca lab had obtained thermoluminescent dates of up to 2, B. In a letter dated September 13,addressed to Mr. Young, Dr Rainey said: Now after we have had years of experimentation both here and at the lab at Oxford, we have no doubt about the dependability of the thermoluminescent method.
I should also point out, that we were so concerned about the extraordinarily ancient dates of these figures, that Mark Han in our lab made an average of 18 runs on each one of the four samples. Hence, there is a very substantial bit of research in these particular pieces All in all the lab stands on these dates for the Julsrud material, whatever that means in terms of archeological dating in Mexico, or in terms of 'fakes verse's authentic' pieces.
They asserted that the ceramics gave off regenerated light signals and could be no more than 30 years old.
A thermoluminescent technician admitted that no other ceramics existed, in his experience, that produced regenerated light signals, and no other thermoluminescent dating of ceramics had ever been done by utilization of a regenerated light signal.
In short, the excuse was a hocus pocus, laboratory trick to avoid the obvious conclusion that dinosaurs and man lived together. John Tierney determined to expose the University of Pennsylvania's shenanigans by testing with standard procedures. Tierney had two fragments of Julsrud-type ceramics excavated at El Toro Mountain in Acambaro, and inin Julsrud's presence, Tierney submitted these pieces to Dr. Bortulot determined the pieces' upper limit age to be 2, years old, thus, invalidating the Masca report which claimed the objects were made thirty to one hundred years ago.
John Tierney took a half dozen samples of Julsrud ceramics of different clay composition to a team of experts at Ohio State University. They consisted of Dr.
Caley among the world's most respected archaeological chemistsand Dr. Ehlers mineralogist in the geology department at Ohio State University. The team reported that they could not believe the artifacts were made in modern times, nor could they believe they were made by some amateur who tried to perpetuate a fraud. Upon my notifying them that they had authenticated Julsrud artifacts, they lapsed into a profound and apparently permanent silence.
Video released the program "Jurassic Art", which contained an Acambaro segment that was originally supposed to have been part of NBC's television special, "The Mysterious Origins of Man. Toward the end of the program, it is revealed that he sent two samples of Julsrud-type ceramics a human figure and a dinosaur figure to an independent Carbon laboratory. Startling results came back. Steede tap danced around the implications, embarrassingly embracing the human figurine as credible, while waltzing past the dinosaur figurine, claiming the laboratory test must not have given a true reading.
In reality, the dinosaur figurine created too much tension for orthodox science and Steede had to find an out. The solution was simple. He discarded the dinosaur date. The Japanese company Nissi sponsored a television crew to go to Acambaro and produce a program for Japanese T. The program entitled "Did the Ancients See Dinosaurs?
There is a stunning moment in the program as the Japanese narrator is looking over an animal figurine, and he holds it up next to his Japanese book on dinosaurs. Amazingly, the Julsrud dinosaur figurine matches the color drawing of an Amargasaurus cazaui in the Japanese dinosaur book. The narrator quickly picks up another dinosaur figure and thumbs through the dinosaur book. This figure is very similar to the Saurolophus osborni as drawn in the Japanese dinosaur book. The narrator ponders the perplexing problem that ancient people about 4, years ago must have seen dinosaurs because they could not have known what they looked like by merely seeing their skeletons in the ground.
The narrator points out that when modern man, such as Sir Richard Owen, found dinosaur skeletons, the first life-sized models of Megalosaurus, Iguanodon and Hylaeosaurus made from them were ridiculously inaccurate. Individual censorship on YouTube - "NaturaLegion" A YouTube video by an arrogant evolutionist calling himself "NaturaLegion" ridicules the work of the Paleochronology group, including this webpage.
I posted comments that he at first answered and then removed when he saw they demolished his position. They are reproduced below. The video is at https: My email is on the webpage, and he could have inquired any time but chose not to. No shellac or other preservative was on any of them. We have successfully used this technique to prepare and date samples of bone and of tooth enamel and dentin, with varying degrees of preservation condition, and from time intervals ranging from a few hundred Carbon years to greater than 40, Carbon years.
Cherkinsky and Christine Chataigner again explain this method in Radiocarbon journal,Vol 52, Nr. Collagen tends to undergo microbiological decomposition, hydrolysis, dissolution, and denaturizing over archaeological and geological timescales, so that only in exceptional conditions, such as burial in permafrost, is collagen found to survive without significant changes into Pleistocene. Survival is usually far shorter for the bones buried in warmer regions. In practice, pretreatment works quite well to remove skin cells and other contaminants encountered during excavation, transport, and handling.
Be sure and subscribe to all the rest! Where mainstream paleontologists disagree with creationists is in the best explanation for the discovery: Just let me know if you would like to learn what data is actually out there in the research literature, instead of just reading whatever creationist organizations and websites tell you about it.
They did claim to have found--and carbon-dated--collagen, no? If their claims of discovering and carbon-dating dinosaur collagen are not relevant to their conclusions, why bring it up? As for the bioapatite In response to your references to an Alexander Cherkinsky article, separating diagenetic from bioapatite carbonates is only part of the problem.
Carbonates are only one of many potential sources of exogenous carbon, and other sources are not as easily removed by treatment with acetic acid. This is something I already point out in the video: In most instances, the material being carbon-dated is much more well-preserved than the fragments of who-knows-what obtained from dinosaur fossils.
When wood, fabrics, leather, human bones and teeth are carbon-dated, we already have a multitude of independent evidence that gives us some idea of about how old these items are.
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Radiocarbon dating just helps us zero in on a more precise estimate. In the case of dinosaur fossils, Hugh Miller and his group of creationists claim to have obtained radiocarbon dates on endogenous sources of carbon But regarding the source of the radiocarbon signal detected, all they have are unverified claims. Call BS all you want.
You have only unverified claims with no supporting evidence.